Anise Smith: Peter, how long ago did you and Christoph Sommer found the Munich Group?

Peter Schwind: Actually, I do not remember our official start, but I do remember that our starting point was a course on visceral manipulation we took with Jean-Pierre Barral somewhere in the north of Germany. At the end of the course, Dr. Barral stated that he did not plan to continue teaching. The students, however, were enthusiastic and asked for a continuation of the course work. Dr. Barral said that he would continue to teach if we would organize the courses in Munich.

AS: So you organized courses exclusively about visceral manipulation?

PS: Yes, at the beginning – that was 1989. For a number of years Dr. Barral came to Munich several times a year to teach the basic visceral classes. After a while Didier Prat took over the basic classes and Dr. Barral continued with the advanced courses.

AS: How come your program was only dedicated to visceral work?

PS: For many of us – Christoph, some other Rolfers from Munich, and certainly myself – the visceral approach was the missing piece for structural integration. In practice we had found that the fascia of the muscles is important, but it is not everything. We all felt that we sometimes did visceral work when following Ida [Rolf]’s concepts during the Fifth Hour without knowing what we were doing. Barral’s work opened a big avenue for us to look at the organism from a different perspective.

AS: But nowadays you also offer other courses?

PS: For us the visceral theme is still the main interest. The visceral courses are the basis for all our teaching activities. Aside from that we have been following Barral’s work in new directions. We now offer courses about nerve manipulation applied to the extremities and to the cranium, as well as courses about treatment of the arteries. We also offer a whole sequence of courses focusing on Barral’s new techniques for an efficient treatment of joints. And last but not least, we offer a whole sequence about fascial and membrane techniques.

AS: How does this relate to traditional Rolfing Structural Integration (SI)?

PS: What I teach in these courses is problem-solving therapy. It can add to structural integration, but in no way can it replace what we do in traditional Rolfing SI.

AS: What kind of practitioners come to the courses offered by the Munich Group?

PS: We have osteopaths, Rolfers, physical therapists, doctors of manual medicine, and practitioners of other manual disciplines. Sometimes surgeons and gynecologists participate. Most people come from Europe, but some travel to Munich from the U.S., from Canada, and even from Australia.

AS: Do you have a “philosophy?”

1. Most of our teachers have published innovative books about their work. Barral and Croibier are the best examples for that. The philosophy we share is our strong belief in the value of dialogue between different manual disciplines. We also have a great dialogue with doctors of allopathic medicine. When we started, we wanted to get out of that isolation of [being categorized as] alternative medicine. That’s why we have a consulting team of orthopedic doctors, internists, and dentists. This is not merely a formality. Christoph and I are constantly exchanging ideas with these people within the context of our daily practices.

AS: Do you have any new projects for your program?

PS: I have been working with a doctor of internal medicine – Dr. Martin Güthlin – for seven years now, who is also well qualified in nuclear medicine. We have been exploring the value of ultrasound to document what we are doing in visceral manipulation. This year we shared our experiences in a course that we co-taught. Participants could literally see on the screen the individual fibers of the psoas and learn to observe the whole context of this muscle as it relates with the organs – for example, the kidneys. Also, they were able to watch precisely what their hands were really doing. Actually, we may all learn that what we think we are doing with our hands is sometimes quite different from what happens in reality.

AS: Why do you still organize these courses after more than twenty years? What is your personal interest?

PS: At the Munich Group I meet people I can learn from. For me the most inspiring moment is when I realize that somebody is able to do the work in a more precise and efficient way. After a class we usually meet at one of our beautiful beer gardens in Munich to talk and kick around ideas, get inspired again and again, and sometimes get desperate about the limitations of our practical skills.

AS: Thank you for this interview.

Anise Smith was certified as a Rolfer in 2008. She also continues her career as a dancer at the opera house in Munich. Peter Schwind, Ph.D., has been working as a Rolfer in Munich since 1980, and has been teaching basic Rolfing trainings since 1985 and advanced trainings since 1999.